Religion & Psychology & Personal Atheism and Theism...

Religion and Psychology and Personal

【VOID】

Retired Staff
Simple argument for the existence of some form of an intelligent creator has two premises.

Premise 1.

A: The universe is finite.

The only way the universe makes sense is if it has a beginning. A universe without a beginning EG. an infinite universe creates paradoxes that can't be reconciled with the way we understand the universe and time and space to operate. I won't write a novel but TL;DR Time can be defined to mean the period between two conditional states or arrangements of the matter of the universe. A particle being in one position and moving to another position in space is measured by Time.

B: Every present conditional state is contingent on a prior conditional state.

The arrangement of the universe in this present moment is conditional upon the arrangement of the universe in the moment prior and so on and so on and so on.

C: The series of prior conditional states of the universe is finite.

There cannot be an infinite regressive series of "events" because such a universe would be paradoxical. Imagine an infinite series of dominos set up all white but with one red domino somewhere in the middle. The red domino will never fall because there will always be another domino preceding it in the series of events leading back to no particular origin. In other words, there is no way for our current moment in "time" to exist in an eternal universe because there would be an infinite number of moments preceding our current moment in Time.


Premise 2.

Given that the universe has to have a beginning

A: Everything that exists has a cause.

B: The universe exists

Therefore the universe has a cause.

If "nothing" existed prior to the existence of the universe then no such cause could exist; the universe does exist therefore had a cause and therefore a creative force which initiated that cause.

I believe it is more likely that an intelligent creator caused the universe to exist rather than the alternative.
 

Cowboy

Registered
well my case comes from my personal experience with god when i was young i had a really bad headache it seemed like it never went away for months but i kept praying and praying and one day in my sleep i saw a golden ball of light that told me you are cured and instantly i was cured and later on i had a similar experience when i was questioning my faith and that ball of light in my sleep told me i am the way then later on in my early teen years i became an atheist it blows my mind i could deny my own experiences but i was very depressed and a none believer and then i saw a red man in my sleep and he came over me i felt heat over my body and the next day i was sick and through reading the bible after looking into all sorts of alternative faiths and so on i have found peace i used to have like a cloud over me i was soo depressed when i accepted jesus it all went away and one day when i had doubts all the same problems came back but when i prayed to jesus it went away so long story short i saw god in a dream and that is something the atheists cannot explain away thanks for reading
 

Slidey Boi

Modguin
Local Moderator
I do believe in God personally and identify as a Christian. Although I say that with some hesitancy, over the way my conduct online is perhaps not the best representation of all that a Christian could or should be.

There are a few reasons for my belief. The first is that my belief has had its ups and downs over the years, but I have always felt much more fulfilled when I have been closer to God, and have been a better version of myself. Many of my regrets in life come from the times when I've pushed God out of my mind, and many of my highest moments were the opposite. Dare I say, I've actually felt the presence of God at times. In particular was when I joined the Air Force at 18, I was really stressed out and unprepared for the challenges ahead, constantly on the fringe of failure (I was Gomer Pile basically of my flight). I lived in prayer, not just to be watched over, but to grow as a person and learn how to walk in God's path. I felt that time was transformative for me and there were several events that, in my mind, are beyond unlikely and look to me of a divine plan.

Another reason is my general skepticism and critical nature of human authority as a source of truth. Humans are fundamentally flawed and unreliable, not in a way that can be easily pointed at and identified, I'm not talking about racism or war or anything obvious like that. Our arrogance causes us to be unaware of flaws in our own understanding. We don't know what we don't know, and as such we must always challenge ourselves and what we believe. But noone does, not on a grand scale. Scientists talk about the formation of the solar system, billions of years ago, with the confidence of someone who witnessed it personally. Now to be fair, they could be right, I don't know. I maintain a level of humility that as a human being, my faculties and capacity for personal judgement are incapable of truly satisfying my intellectual need for absolute certainty. Is evolution true? (I mean as an origin for life, not that mutations and species variation that's observable is under question in my mind) I don't know if evolution is our origin, or if the big bang is true, or if the creation story in the Bible happened the way its written... or if its some kind of combination that we wouldn't expect? After all, the Genesis week talks about life forming and reads to me like the planet could have laid dormant for a time after creation... Maybe we were seeded by aliens like some people believe, engineered to evolve unnatural intelligence. I really don't think I'll ever know for sure. It takes a lot of humility to be able to accept that and not puff out my chest and proclaim that I know the truth.

Because of that humility and intellectual uncertainty, of being unimpressed with the state of scientific research and academia.. (I don't want to powerlevel too much but I do have a graduate degree, and half of a second graduate degree that I dropped out of, so I know a thing or two about both of these subjects) I find it the right choice for me to choose to believe what is best for my life. I know a lot of people think you don't understand science if you believe in God or doubt evolution, but I think the opposite is true. Scientific research is far more political and less empirical than you might think. You can justify almost anything with clever wording. There have been real coverups in our beloved Western scientific community. I'm not saying I KNOW that's the case, I'm just saying its likely enough in my mind that I consider following what we are taught at face value without question somewhat naiive.

A final reason is I do think there is some actual evidence for the Bible's authenticity. (I don't want to have a huge debate on this, but just to explain what I mean I'll give a couple examples off the top of my head). The primary one being prophecies that have come true. So many Old Testament prophesies, like in Isaiah describing Christ's persecution, whipping, and crucifixion. And of the New Testament... I believe the Gospels have a tremendous amount of credibility, just think of the context. Jesus was just KILLED by the Roman authorities. Christ's followers were persecuted by the Jews and Romans alike, many martyred. 11 of the 12 disciples were killed (John was exiled instead). They had no reason to just make something up like this, they truly believed it. They saw miracles, most importantly Christ resurrected, which caused them to wholeheartedly follow him knowingly against death itself.

So that's where I stand. I didn't want to write a novel but I ended up having a lot to say on this subject. Hope you enjoyed if you read it all and I look forward to seeing what others say.
 

Cowboy

Registered
I do believe in God personally and identify as a Christian. Although I say that with some hesitancy, over the way my conduct online is perhaps not the best representation of all that a Christian could or should be.

There are a few reasons for my belief. The first is that my belief has had its ups and downs over the years, but I have always felt much more fulfilled when I have been closer to God, and have been a better version of myself. Many of my regrets in life come from the times when I've pushed God out of my mind, and many of my highest moments were the opposite. Dare I say, I've actually felt the presence of God at times. In particular was when I joined the Air Force at 18, I was really stressed out and unprepared for the challenges ahead, constantly on the fringe of failure (I was Gomer Pile basically of my flight). I lived in prayer, not just to be watched over, but to grow as a person and learn how to walk in God's path. I felt that time was transformative for me and there were several events that, in my mind, are beyond unlikely and look to me of a divine plan.

Another reason is my general skepticism and critical nature of human authority as a source of truth. Humans are fundamentally flawed and unreliable, not in a way that can be easily pointed at and identified, I'm not talking about racism or war or anything obvious like that. Our arrogance causes us to be unaware of flaws in our own understanding. We don't know what we don't know, and as such we must always challenge ourselves and what we believe. But noone does, not on a grand scale. Scientists talk about the formation of the solar system, billions of years ago, with the confidence of someone who witnessed it personally. Now to be fair, they could be right, I don't know. I maintain a level of humility that as a human being, my faculties and capacity for personal judgement are incapable of truly satisfying my intellectual need for absolute certainty. Is evolution true? (I mean as an origin for life, not that mutations and species variation that's observable is under question in my mind) I don't know if evolution is our origin, or if the big bang is true, or if the creation story in the Bible happened the way its written... or if its some kind of combination that we wouldn't expect? After all, the Genesis week talks about life forming and reads to me like the planet could have laid dormant for a time after creation... Maybe we were seeded by aliens like some people believe, engineered to evolve unnatural intelligence. I really don't think I'll ever know for sure. It takes a lot of humility to be able to accept that and not puff out my chest and proclaim that I know the truth.

Because of that humility and intellectual uncertainty, of being unimpressed with the state of scientific research and academia.. (I don't want to powerlevel too much but I do have a graduate degree, and half of a second graduate degree that I dropped out of, so I know a thing or two about both of these subjects) I find it the right choice for me to choose to believe what is best for my life. I know a lot of people think you don't understand science if you believe in God or doubt evolution, but I think the opposite is true. Scientific research is far more political and less empirical than you might think. You can justify almost anything with clever wording. There have been real coverups in our beloved Western scientific community. I'm not saying I KNOW that's the case, I'm just saying its likely enough in my mind that I consider following what we are taught at face value without question somewhat naiive.

A final reason is I do think there is some actual evidence for the Bible's authenticity. (I don't want to have a huge debate on this, but just to explain what I mean I'll give a couple examples off the top of my head). The primary one being prophecies that have come true. So many Old Testament prophesies, like in Isaiah describing Christ's persecution, whipping, and crucifixion. And of the New Testament... I believe the Gospels have a tremendous amount of credibility, just think of the context. Jesus was just KILLED by the Roman authorities. Christ's followers were persecuted by the Jews and Romans alike, many martyred. 11 of the 12 disciples were killed (John was exiled instead). They had no reason to just make something up like this, they truly believed it. They saw miracles, most importantly Christ resurrected, which caused them to wholeheartedly follow him knowingly against death itself.

So that's where I stand. I didn't want to write a novel but I ended up having a lot to say on this subject. Hope you enjoyed if you read it all and I look forward to seeing what others say.
this was amazing i think you really nailed it one thing im glad you brought up is people act like science is flawless and not political which is bogus science is very political you can see this with the transgender stuff or one good example im not a fan of this guy and hes an atheist but his name is james lindsey there was a thing where he submitted an obivously nonesense study about how he is a women and 6 people agreed so it was considered by yale to be an official paper even though it was an obvious troll or you can look at the lableak it was considered to be a conspiracy and now its considered to be highly likely or look at how the inventor of DNA himself believes in race and IQ yet it is still so censored so moral of the story god is real you do not need science to prove it
 

The Gays From LA

The Gays From LA Took My K.Flay Away
Hellovan Onion
The other day I found this tweet with screenshots of 1 star reviews of the Good Book on Goodreads:


Here's the Goodreads page for the Bible, if you want to read more 1 star reviews for yourself.

After LMAO at that tweet, I had to go and look up all the 1 star reviews of The Holy Quran:

Derivative with no unique insights; constant, juvenile threats; mind-numbingly repetitious attempts to align Muhammad with Jewish figures and prophets (including Jesus) as a mantle of authority while conveniently rejecting Jewish thought; utter intolerance of non-conformity to or even good-faith doubt of Muhammad's claims, often hidden under devious claims of acceptance which are actually demands of submission; astonishingly, incredibly simplistic in its thought--more so by a wide margin than any other religious text I've read: simple punishment/reward (Muhammad really enjoyed fantasizing about people burning); believe because God could do this or that if only he willed to (he just doesn't happen to); believe because, hey, look at the rain and the livestock, they're pretty neat; nothing else. I was expecting so much more and tried my best to read with an open mind, but the book is entirely disappointing--it reads more like a training manual for slaves than anything else. No literary merit, at least in translation.

To conclude, the Qur'an is the most difficult reading experience I've ever had. It's unbelievably repetitive, so you spend the vast majority of your time hoping against hope that the next page will contain something you haven't already read a hundred times. And unless you're a Muslim, you probably won't find the content particularly uplifting. Reading the Qur'an, I was continually taken aback by its paucity of imagination, its paranoia, its insistence on blind faith and the ugliness of its malice toward those outside its religion. I'm glad to be through with it.

A pathetic excuse for guidance in life. If you think the quran can give you guidance for morality, you should try using a 1000-year old medicine book to cure your family from illness. See how far that takes you.
Full of pseudomoral stories and full of doublespeak, absurd contradictions and outright calls for barbarism. It is generally shit.
Also it is very unreadable in any of the 5+ translations I tried in both Bulgarian and English. I am very sceptical that it is "beautiful poetry" in the original.
Also, Muhammed was a paedophile.

The second half of this book seems to be written in a more lyrical style. It was as if the author became more concerned with his readers becoming put-off with how narrow minded he was treating his subject matter. The writing prose continues to improve as the end draws closer.

The first half was very difficult to get past due mainly to its harsh, abrupt, spiteful, and the seemingly endless, over and over again, repetition of the same limited topics. Just how many times and ways in one book can the same topic be repeated? There must be a place in Guinness World Records for a book of this ilk.

The author’s primary focus can be summarized a few words; horrible judgments are coming for the non-believers, believers must wage war on unbelievers, god gives guidance and blessings to believers and refrains from giving guidance and blessings to non-believers, non-believers are predestined to eternal hell, there is only one god even though this one god continues to speak in the plural tense, god is merciful and just and again so horrific. These topics are repeated almost every other page for about 300 pages into the book.

Then I looked up the 1 star reviews of the Bhagavad Gita:

The Bhagavad Gita is borderline nonsensical (and completely nonsensical in some places), Contradictory, uninspiring, and possibly the most boring book/poem/epic ever. There is no love lost on this miserable excuse for literature as there was no love to begin with.

The ideas remained strange to me. I’m not going to spend my time on this earth dedicating it to someone else. I find it hard to trust a God who preaches complete and utter non-attachment, then goes on to say that we should be completely attached to this said God - and that the best way to do that is sacrifice to the God. I just don’t understand how we are supposed to practice absolute lack of desire and selflessness, but then the God promises that if we do this, we will be rewarded with a supreme joy. Isn’t that incentive, and hence desire? It seems really contradicting and scheming to me. Religions all seem to have this common theme.

Its short, so I read it twice. I thought I missed the inspirational oneness with the Universe vibe the first time around. Nope. Its not there. Krishna is an asshole who believes we have no responsibilities beyond our own transcendence. I disagree.

And here are the Tao Te Ching 1 star reviews:

Lesson: find the middle path.

Okay.

According to Google there are 12 million adherents of "The Way" & I can not help but wonder why? I suppose this is but one text of the Tao worldview & can't be taken as the end all-be all for the belief system, but still.. this work seems more like musings of a diary entry than any definitive religious text. I'm not necessarily asking how people can believe in this (though that is a completely valid question), I'm instead wondering how this particular rambling can have 12,000,ooo followers 2,000+ years later while similarly written works that were cornerstones of schools of thought like Cynicism or Stoicism (imho much more cogent & valuable) went the way of the dodo.

"Some say that my teaching is nonsense; others call it lofty but impractical. But to those who have looked inside themselves, this nonsense makes perfect sense."

I had never heard of this book until recently, when I saw two or three strong recommendations for it within the same month. I can understand why some people draw parallels to stoicism or secular mindfulness, and I can imagine a dedicated student engaging in extensive exegesis could benefit from this text, but I found it uninspiring and too mystical. I remain in the "this is nonsense" camp.
 
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