Shit takes on literature?

[nobodyworthwhile]

So, what are some bad and objectively wrong things you've heard said about literature?

I actually wanted to bring this up in the KF General topic because the first one I thought of was someone on Kiwi Farms summed up Don Quixote as "Idealism is Bad." Which.... Don Quixote is not that simple. That's almost a TV Tropes-tier take.

But then I remembered bad takes have existed since before the internet.

Probably the ur-Example (for me anyway) is Michael Moorcock's "Epic Pooh," where he describes Lord of the Rings as being a fun, happy story where nothing bad happens and everything ends happily. Note: by his own admission he only read Fellowship of the Ring, and even then its a stupid take.

More recently, I've at times watched the videos of a youtuber named Dominic Noble, who reviews books and their movie adaptations. Unfortunately he's very woke and that leads to a lot of shit takes (for example he unironically parrots the lie that Susan is barred from returning to Narnia because she got a social life and wears make-up, which anyone not terminally retarded knows is flat-out wrong).

Anyway, you got any shit takes on literature you've run into?

 

[BurnerAccount333]

But then I remembered bad takes have existed since before the internet.

Yes but bad takes from KF users are funny because they usually come with this smug attitude of saving the west.

Anyway, you got any shit takes on literature you've run into?

A lot of the shit takes I see nowadays are from e-celebs and anyone below the age of 24 on twitter, so much so I legitimately want it to be illegal that I have to hear their retarded opinions.

Most of their retarded takes come from the nature of being generally ignorant of media and history, and being so sensitive they actively want the censor. Did you know Scott Pilgrim is now problematic to the SJW crowd? That's right the media the ruined a generation, and arguably created Tumblr's culture, is now too problematic to them. Worse is how people will over-hype certain aspects of a story to make it seem worse, Stephen King for example. It's somewhat funny though that a lot people invoke stories yet seemingly haven't read them either: 1984, for example.

And yet I think I could accept all their shit-takes if they actually had life-experience because then I wouldn't have to hear their retarded perspective on life. I don't know how to describe it, there's too many examples in my head. It's just that feeling you get when you feel someone isn't understanding something because they just haven't experienced life enough.
I think the ultimate shit-take though, something I think about a lot and wonder how the fuck someone could actually say this.
"Fiction shouldn't test taboos." A statement I worry is becoming progressively more and more common.

 

[nobodyworthwhile]

And yet I think I could accept all their shit-takes if they actually had life-experience because then I wouldn't have to hear their retarded perspective on life. I don't know how to describe it, there's too many examples in my head. It's just that feeling you get when you feel someone isn't understanding something because they just haven't experienced life enough.

This is outside the realm of "Literature" but this paragraph here reminded me of a Pushing Up Roses video:

I normally enjoy Pushing Up Roses, but this video just struck me as all sorts of weird. Her major claim is that Police Quest is full of tonal whiplash, but the examples she cites are.... not whiplash-ey at all. I mean, hot girls trying to use their hotness to get out of speeding tickets is literally one of the oldest stereotypes in the book, and the scene with the stripper--as many comments pointed out--was an example of friends unaware of the mood accidentally making a situation awkward.

These kind of things happen in real life though, and Police Quest is supposed to be simulating the life of a police officer.

And maybe Roses was just not thinking or not catching it that day, but I also wonder if she legit just didn't have the life experience to understand this stuff.

 

[BurnerAccount333]

And maybe Roses was just not thinking or not catching it that day, but I also wonder if she legit just didn't have the life experience to understand this stuff.

Likewise outside the realm of Literature.

We act based on our knowledge, but also our lack of knowledge. Have you ever realized, or learned, something and your opinion did a 180?
Paradoxically we can have opinions that literally make no sense when you think about them, and actively conflict with our other beliefs.
Here's an example: You can literally shout you love goblin-girls in most communities and you're not going run into people calling you an absolute monster, and even when I point this out it isn't to call anyone a monster but to provide an example or point out the hypocrisy of someone.
To point out goblin-girls literally are just green-skinned short-stack, and short-stack is literally just oppai loli with a different name.
Hell sometimes they aren't even short-stack, and people know this.

But I bring this up because it's the fastest way to prove my point.
Sometimes we treat groups terribly because all we know is the bad stories: If all you've seen is the most extreme cases of dangerous weirdos then of course you're going to believe everyone even faintly similar is dangerous too. It's kind of why nowadays people conflate awkward sexual experiences with their partners as rape, when in reality it's just an awkward encounter that happens in relationships, but because of how social media treats these stories you'll eventually start to believe it is a problem or simply act like it is a problem.

See imagine we're in a group 100 people and I get the 99 of them to all say drinking milk is evil. Even if you know it's just drinking milk, even if you still disagree, you'll be aware that you're in the minority because now at very least I have planted the idea that drinking milk is a taboo.
And similarly I've seen this attitude become more and more common: I see people learning not from their friends, and their personal experiences, but social media itself. I see people legitimately act as if the streamer they watch is somehow close in a way. In fact it's why you get those strange moments in streams where the streamer is arguing with a viewer whom seemingly is getting upset because the streamer believes something different. Nowadays people are experiencing life purely through media, and media is being sterilized.
It's why you get those strange cases where you say: "Why is everyone yelling?" "Why is this is a big deal?"
And why you can feel that disconnect sometimes, their entire basis of social knowledge is based on cartoons and streamers.

That's just my thoughts though, feel free to question/disagree with it.

 

[Crimson Fucker]

"Anime will save us from the woke sjw pedo trannies trying to take over western media groom our children and feminize all men! I will now go watch another anime where the protagonist was a man that becomes a woman that gets romanticly involved with his male friend. Right after i watch the one where the male protagonist dies and gets reincarnated in a fantasy world as a femboy shota that can change genders! Then after that i can watch the one where the protagonist can change genders at will and goes around killing vampires and zombies and the one where the protagonist has a 100 year little girl partner that gets buff like a man. Oh, i hope another episode of the one with the skeleton protagonist that has a harem where there twins and one is a trap has a new episode too!"

-some kiwifarmer

 

[BurnerAccount333]

"Anime will save us from the woke sjw pedo trannies trying to take over western media groom our children and feminize all men! I will now go watch another anime where the protagonist was a man that becomes a woman that gets romanticly involved with his male friend. Right after i watch the one where the male protagonist dies and gets reincarnated in a fantasy world as a femboy shota that can change genders! Then after that i can watch the one where the protagonist can change genders at will and goes around killing vampires and zombies and the one where the protagonist has a 100 year little girl partner that gets buff like a man. Oh, i hope another episode of the one with the skeleton protagonist that has a harem where there twins and one is a trap has a new episode too!"

-some kiwifarmer

On that note: It'll never not be funny to see a K-ON fan be more racist than KKK members.
Like they're both racist, and they both LARP about about the day rope finally goes on sale, but only the K-ON fan has consistently made the KKK look mildly racist for all the insane shit I've seen them say repeatedly, and they're pretty creative too.

 

[nobodyworthwhile]

"Anime will save us from the woke sjw pedo trannies trying to take over western media groom our children and feminize all men! I will now go watch another anime where the protagonist was a man that becomes a woman that gets romanticly involved with his male friend. Right after i watch the one where the male protagonist dies and gets reincarnated in a fantasy world as a femboy shota that can change genders! Then after that i can watch the one where the protagonist can change genders at will and goes around killing vampires and zombies and the one where the protagonist has a 100 year little girl partner that gets buff like a man. Oh, i hope another episode of the one with the skeleton protagonist that has a harem where there twins and one is a trap has a new episode too!"

-some kiwifarmer

the funny thing is I've seen Kiwis take the opposite stance as well: that anime is a cancer and needs to be purged.

My own stance is that if its a still-airing anime and it isn't called "Detective Conan," its probably crap.

 

[Crimson Fucker]

the funny thing is I've seen Kiwis take the opposite stance as well: that anime is a cancer and needs to be purged.

My own stance is that if its a still-airing anime and it isn't called "Detective Conan," its probably crap.

I just look at it as any other cartoon. But both people that love and hate anime hate when i say this. Putting it on a pedestal to worship or hate because where an animation came from and separating it are both sides of the same coin. I have apathy towards it in general. If it's good then i watch it, if not then i don't.

 

[BurnerAccount333]

I just look at it as any other cartoon. But both people that love and hate anime hate when i say this. Putting it on a pedestal to worship or hate because where an animation came from and separating it are both sides of the same coin. I have apathy towards it in general. If it's good then i watch it, if not then i don't.

The ultimate take I have with anime is that anime looks aesthetically pleasing to me and therefore I like it.

 

[Crimson Fucker]

The ultimate take I have with anime is that anime looks aesthetically pleasing to me and therefore I like it.

A lot of it is well drawn, studio madhouse does a good job on a lot of their works. Since anime are manga adaptations it isn't much different than cartoon adaptations of western comics but each country has their own local media.

 

[nobodyworthwhile]

I just look at it as any other cartoon. But both people that love and hate anime hate when i say this. Putting it on a pedestal to worship or hate because where an animation came from and separating it are both sides of the same coin. I have apathy towards it in general. If it's good then i watch it, if not then i don't.

This is probably the most sensible take.

Separating anime from "cartoons" makes sense sometimes though. Like sometimes on youtube I'll see videos like "the top ten cartoons of the 1980s," and when I see that, I'm thinking I'm in for a rush of childhood nostalgia (I'm from 1983).... and then half the list is anime that never aired in America in any form, like Dragonball or Fist of the North Star, and that just feels cheap to me.

That's how it is in my mind anyway. It's like this time I wanted to tell scary stories for Halloween and an uncle of mine said "here's a scary story: that people actually fell for X" ("X" was some political thing, I forget the details). That's.... not exactly the kind of "scary" I was looking for.

 

[Crimson Fucker]

This is probably the most sensible take.

Separating anime from "cartoons" makes sense sometimes though. Like sometimes on youtube I'll see videos like "the top ten cartoons of the 1980s," and when I see that, I'm thinking I'm in for a rush of childhood nostalgia (I'm from 1983).... and then half the list is anime that never aired in America in any form, like Dragonball or Fist of the North Star, and that just feels cheap to me.

That's how it is in my mind anyway. It's like this time I wanted to tell scary stories for Halloween and an uncle of mine said "here's a scary story: that people actually fell for X" ("X" was some political thing, I forget the details). That's.... not exactly the kind of "scary" I was looking for.

Yeah, i just meant separation as in hold it above others because you love or hate it. Anime are cartoons but not all cartoons are anime, so i agree if you are specifying it in a constructive way like doing top anime lists or something. Similar to singling out animations from other countries for the purpose of discussion or something. Because of k pop Twitter other Korean media is becoming popular and they have their own version of manga basically and call it something different. I think they are designed with vertical mobile scrolling in mind. For Americans dragon ball was more of a 90s show because that's when it aired.

 

[Assley Butsmell]

Ayn rand book is little more than a verbose, faux-pas intellectual cover for her childhood trauma

 

[BurnerAccount333]

Something I just remembered is people's insistence on sterilizing media, while also decrying modernizing media.
But on that note. Though again not a shit take on literature itself.

I just remembered how fucking insane some people have gotten.
"Oh this girl likes all the cute fan-art she got? Can't she realize she shouldn't be happy?!"

I've seen this with fiction, though I have no examples currently, where someone will take a happy ending and say it's actually bad.
I usually only see these takes from the mentally unwell when it's about some character settling down and getting married, or becoming more womanly.

Anime are cartoons but not all cartoons are anime

Whatever you do! DO NOT SAY AVATAR THE LAST AIR-BENDER IS YOUR FAVORITE ANIME!
Worst mistake of my life.

 

[The Gays From LA]

The censoring of Roald Dahl books was definitely something I never expected to see. I loved his books growing up, that was before any of the movie adaptations which made them even more popular than they already were when I was a kid:

Roald Dahl books rewritten to remove language deemed offensive

Augustus Gloop now ‘enormous’ instead of ‘fat’, Mrs Twit no longer ‘ugly’ and Oompa Loompas are gender neutral

www.theguardian.com

 

[nobodyworthwhile]

I've seen this with fiction, though I have no examples currently, where someone will take a happy ending and say it's actually bad.

I can give you an example: Matpat, and in particular Film Theory.

The TV Trope "Inferred Holocaust" (which I think used to be called Implied Endor Holocaust) was all about this kind of shit.

Whatever you do! DO NOT SAY AVATAR THE LAST AIR-BENDER IS YOUR FAVORITE ANIME!
Worst mistake of my life.

Totally. I can name many anime that are way superior ;)

 

[BurnerAccount333]

I can give you an example: Matpat, and in particular Film Theory.

To be fair to Matpat his theories are usually just: "Well what if actually it was all a dream?"
When I said bad I meant morally bad, least to their perspective.

What I mean is those moments where you see someone who clearly just didn't get the point...

I wish I took a screenshot of this but I recall so many people arguing that Naoto from Persona 4, a video game character that pretends to be a guy because she feels she isn't taken seriously as a girl, was trans or was beating sexist stereotypes. In the ending though she clearly gets past this mental block and starts to live her life the way she wants, no longer trying to be something else, and yet somehow idiots took this as a horribly offensive ending.

 

[nobodyworthwhile]

To be fair to Matpat his theories are usually just: "Well what if actually it was all a dream?"

Huh. I've never seen Matpat do that and in fact remember him saying he dislikes "dream" theories.

When I said bad I meant morally bad, least to their perspective.

With Matpat, a common trend is "the villains were actually right." He's even made self-aware references to this being a common trend in his videos.

What I mean is those moments where you see someone who clearly just didn't get the point...

I wish I took a screenshot of this but I recall so many people arguing that Naoto from Persona 4, a video game character that pretends to be a guy because she feels she isn't taken seriously as a girl, was trans or was beating sexist stereotypes. In the ending though she clearly gets past this mental block and starts to live her life the way she wants, no longer trying to be something else, and yet somehow idiots took this as a horribly offensive ending.

I recall seeing something similar for the first Danganronpa, and again the character in question clearly wants to drop the disguise and be seen as a man.

There's a similar debate involving a character from Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door, based entirely on people not understanding cultural norms and taking a translated insult too literally.

Its one thing I've always hated in media analysis. Nowadays the trend is "Everything is secretly trans." Before, it was "everything is secretly gay." And if you ever question their shit takes, they throw a hissy fit.

One of my favorite anime, Ranma 1/2, has been on both sides of this: I recall a time where it used to be considered wildly offensive because it "reinforced patriarchal attitudes and gender roles" and such shit... nowadays people try to play it up as being shockingly progressive for its age.... which to be fair, is a take that makes a lot more sense. But Ranma 1/2 is expressly not a political work, its just a lighthearted manga about people with unusual curses and the shit that they get up to.

 

[BurnerAccount333]

Huh. I've never seen Matpat do that and in fact remember him saying he dislikes "dream" theories.
With Matpat, a common trend is "the villains were actually right." He's even made self-aware references to this being a common trend in his videos.

Ah then fair enough.

I recall seeing something similar for the first Danganronpa, and again the character in question clearly wants to drop the disguise and be seen as a man.

There's a similar debate involving a character from Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door, based entirely on people not understanding cultural norms and taking a translated insult too literally.

Its one thing I've always hated in media analysis. Nowadays the trend is "Everything is secretly trans." Before, it was "everything is secretly gay." And if you ever question their shit takes, they throw a hissy fit.

One of my favorite anime, Ranma 1/2, has been on both sides of this: I recall a time where it used to be considered wildly offensive because it "reinforced patriarchal attitudes and gender roles" and such shit... nowadays people try to play it up as being shockingly progressive for its age.... which to be fair, is a take that makes a lot more sense. But Ranma 1/2 is expressly not a political work, its just a lighthearted manga about people with unusual curses and the shit that they get up to.

Yeah you get it. God it's so strange to think I miss when everyone just made theories on how batman is actually gay instead of all the current media analysis now.

 

[Slaughter]

Brönte sisters are overrated

There I said it.